Posts by Anony Mous

35

Jehovah Witnesses lost in Court. Disfellowshipped Sister Reinstated by Court Order?

by pistolpete in

imagine the "faithful" jws who are now having to talk to this person by court order or face the consequences----legally.. exjws are spreading the news and now some exjws who have been disfellowshipped for years are starting to research to see if this is an option in their country.

here are the articles, you need to translate in google.

https://www.nrk.no/norge/gry-nygard-ble-ekskludert-fra-jehovas-vitner-_-vant-i-lagmannsretten-1.15570621.

Anony Mous

@Corney: Not sure what you're going on about, the decision is pretty clear, the WT is able to set the rules within their congregation, however the rules aren't legal (which many EU courts have found) or weren't legally followed to comply with Norwegian law.

Note that the EU does not have such concepts like freedom of speech or freedom of religion in the way the US does, the government has significant involvement and restrictions on speech and religious affairs. Sure that may be a travesty, but that is an entirely different discussion.

Not only that, but apparently the court also found the elders lied to the courts about what happened in the judicial committee meetings, with the elders having significantly different stories about how they reached their decision, presumably to divert the attention from the organizational rules set forth in the elder manual (theocratic warfare). One elder for example said a judicial committee does not go into details in these cases, which is an outright lie, while the other described the judicial committee going into extreme detail about the types of intercourse and how much of her body was naked.

Every elder seemed to indicate that they believe she was indeed raped, but that this constitutes 'porneia' because she put herself in the situation, yet they didn't council her on the fact this was in fact rape and she had the option of going to the police. The judges didn't even interpret this, they just held that it was illegal to hold someone accountable for their own rape.

35

Jehovah Witnesses lost in Court. Disfellowshipped Sister Reinstated by Court Order?

by pistolpete in

imagine the "faithful" jws who are now having to talk to this person by court order or face the consequences----legally.. exjws are spreading the news and now some exjws who have been disfellowshipped for years are starting to research to see if this is an option in their country.

here are the articles, you need to translate in google.

https://www.nrk.no/norge/gry-nygard-ble-ekskludert-fra-jehovas-vitner-_-vant-i-lagmannsretten-1.15570621.

Anony Mous

@corney: do note that the bitterwinter.org writer is a JW if not a cult apologist, so take anything they say with a grain of salt.

But basically the JW organization got convicted based on a Norwegian law that nobody can force you to join or leave a religion. It’s the latter part that is important, the law does not force someone to associate with you, it just states they can’t force you out of your religion involuntarily.

Given the JW hold that you can’t be a JW without being part of and in good standing within their organization, they have violated that law. This has nothing to do with religious freedom, it does not require you to believe that they are still a JW, they just can’t force you not to be one.

The facts whether she was or was not raped (which bitterwinter writer claims she wasn’t because she didn’t claim it to be so in front of the JW committee, even though the description - sex with a passed out drunk person - is clearly rape) were not really relevant, the judges thought it was appalling but that wasn’t the reason.

86

Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

by Disillusioned JW in

is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

- (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

Anony Mous

@vidqun: it has been proven in practice that complex information systems can evolve without any further input. You can actually build a Turing-complete computer (a system that can compute ANY computable problem) with just 3 simple rules which boil down to: the fittest survive, sexual reproduction is a thing and overpopulation is bad.

Likewise, RNA and DNA has successfully been “created” from “nothing” in the lab. Across the Universe we are finding that these building blocks of life are naturally occurring all over the place and it seems just a matter of time and chance before you got enough. Of the ~50 building blocks of DNA life forms, we’ve been able to create all but ~10 in the lab simply by simulating an early earth environment.

8

Parents of Different Spiritual Persuasions

by Thehermit05 in

jw
friends

i escaped the cult many years ago.

as a result, i have an eye for cultlike thinking, whether in terms of religion, politics, centrist thinking, etc.. last december my fiance and i had a baby.

she is black and i'm white.

Anony Mous

This is the problem with modern racial philosophy, that it is another cult. Be clear and honest, point out the flaws and the parallels with whatever cult they are leaning towards before they become entrenched in their positions.

These cults have very similar styles, they all follow a leader, they have out vs in mentality, special ways of talking, invented words and very sly, but counterfactual talking points. The goal is always to maximize power for the leaders, nothing more, nothing less.

30

The Stupidity Of The Biden Administration Knows No Bounds

by Simon in

so picture this, you are suddenly withdrawing troops after 2 decades in a country and, well, its all gone to shit.. how do you ensure that your vulnerable citizens and allies can get out when the airport is surrounded and no one can get through?.

option 1: it's a trick question surely?

you don't get yourself into this mess in the first place - you withdraw the citizens first, not last, duh!.

Anony Mous

Here is an interesting tidbit, that may explain why Biden did certain things. This is my conjecture based on various articles going all the way back to the Obama era when Ukraine, Russia and China started to plan the so-called "Biden Memorial Pipeline" from Ukraine to China using a company named Burisma.

- There were reports today that the Taliban and Turkmenistan started talks about building oil pipeline infrastructure through Afghanistan in February

- There is talk about the Biden admin involved in pushing expanding the scope of the TAPI pipeline (Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India) and apparently has been involved in pushing along the negotiations with Taliban and Turkmenistan, although the State Department has stated, the US did not "directly fund" the development, they did not deny being involved at some level.

- The companies involved with the supply of Turkmenistan oil and ostensibly going to be doing the build-out for Turkmenistan-Taliban pipeline are a chain of companies, the primary companies that happen to be involved with the supply in Turkmenistan will be subsidiaries of a certain Burisma Holdings...

Sure, the fact checkers will say that Biden has divested itself from Burisma a while ago, but the question remains, what influence did these developments have on the decisions made by a certain Joe Biden when his son walked away with bags of cash from these companies.

34

Pfizer becomes first Covid vaccine to gain full FDA approval

by PaddyTheBaddy in

great news.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58309254.

pfizer's two-dose covid-19 vaccine has received full approval from the us food and drug administration (fda) - the first jab to be licensed in the nation.. .

the vaccine had initially been given emergency use authorisation.

Anony Mous

@joey jojo: If / when you catch covid, and, if you require treatment in a hospital, do you feel that you should have priority over say, a cancer patient, or someone who , through no fault of their own, needs a hospital bed?

Thanks to privatized healthcare, we don't have to make that choice in the US. If you have COVID and you need a hospital bed, you get one, if you have cancer, you get one too. Hospitals in the US are set up for real pandemics like Ebola, they never got to capacity even at the height of this "pandemic". If you're poor, healthcare is free, if you can't pay because you made the choice not to get mandated health insurance, you still get treatment and you get to pay back over any length of time without any interest or impact on your credit score.

If you live in a country where the government decides who gets care, you're in luck too, because you wouldn't have to share the bed with any cancer treatment because typically people with cancer are too old. Most West-European countries, have legal discharge REQUIREMENTS. Basically if you're older than 65, you get a progressively diminished amount of care with a maximum amount of time you're allowed to spend on certain treatments to reduce the burden on the tax payer. If your care gets too expensive, you get sent home to die and there's death panels that basically set the maximum cost of care based on government budget.

24

Have JEHOVAH ever supported WARS between his WORSHIPPERS?

by Longlivetherenegades in

jehovah's witnesses used to state other christian denominations go to war and in fact that their religious leaders bless such wars.

they see this as one reason why all other christian denominations are not true christians since they kill one another at war and therefore they don't love one another as stated by jesus in john 13: 34,35.. for example when a roman catholic go to war, he/she is bound to kill a fellow roman catholic in the cause of the war.

therefore roman catholic can't be true christians since its member don't love one another and kill one another at war and as such god cannot be in support of such wars where his worshippers kill one another.. the question that comes for consideration is, has jehovah ever supported wars between his own worshippers?.

Anony Mous

A lot of the Bible is justification for what happened. The narrative in writings until the early medieval times in most stories wasn’t historical as we are accustomed to today. It was more of a story telling as to the mores of the people and the decisions they made and why we should do certain things.

Basically, it was what we would today consider a children’s story. There was no wolf that ate the boy that cried wolf, there is no historical evidence this ever happened. Likewise, the Bible is a collection of stories about what happens to people when they do or don’t do certain things.

Whatever we can correlate to historical events, was often written after the fact and often as a justification or victory lap for the winners. So it is very likely these things happened, genocide and all, the reasons for it were invented after the fact, perhaps based on real events that still lingered but blown way out of proportion. Basically someone started asking questions hundreds of years later about why they eradicated the Benjamites and someone came up with a justification.

Similar to how the media covers stories today, if that was all lost in time and then you find some of the CNN records, the reason millions of people died is because Trump was an evil genius and a few records about Biden took over and a big fight in the Capitol and then all reporting on COVID death disappeared.

Thousands of years later, people may read portions of the CNN records as the few extant history left from our era and conclude that Trump was an evil genius who had a remote control virus and then there was a big war in the US that went through the nation and burned down the capitol. Or a more reasonable review would show the writer didn’t like Trump and favored Biden and was trying to manipulate for political gain. When you then staple together other documents and archeological evidence from the same era, they’ll conclude it was probably not that Trump was an evil genius, there is no contemporary or physical evidence there were ever thousands of people fighting in Washington, there was no plague-like pandemic, the Trump war didn’t exist or didn’t have any political impact, but the source had an ulterior motive.

THAT IS THE ENTIRE BIBLE - a CNN of ancient times. King Solomon and King David, never existed, they were media propaganda for a few warlords that had to justify their existence and their actions, kind of like stories about Biden today.

19

How on earth can WT lawyers continue to believe WT has God’s backing, when they see all the deception play out in Court.

by pistolpete in

here is a post on reddit from mark and kimmy o’ donnell, from the crusaders documentary,.

ask us anything.. mr. o'donnell gives his assessment of why wt lawyers continue to defend the child sex abuse cases that the organization continues to fight, even though they see firsthand the deception, the lies, the withholding of facts and dirty tactics used in court.

by an organization that claims to be god's earthly representative, and the only one to hold the truth.

Anony Mous

The real WT lawyers, video producers and website developers are all third party. They are all well versed in what they do and have clients much bigger than the JW.

How can a criminal defense lawyer sleep at night, if their client admits something illegal will happen in the future, they have a duty to report this, if there is admission of guilt and they consider this makes them in fact legally guilty, they generally will go into damage control mode and tell them that it is better to plead out, they generally have to present any factual evidence they are aware of in discovery, so they can kind of judge in advance how the case will go. 95-98% of cases in the US are plea deals, which is a great thing, you get the criminal in jail without going through expensive trials, since 1989, only ~30 people who plead guilty have later been exonerated (which doesn’t mean they weren’t involved or knowledgeable about the crime, some people plead guilty to avoid incriminating gang members or family who they know are the true guilty party).

The entire WTBTS defense is that they aren’t responsible for what their members do, this isn’t admission of guilt, but the lawyers know that if there is some culpability they will generally tell their client to settle. The WT lawyers aren’t generally criminal defense lawyers, they are corporate and civil law professionals and there the question isn’t who is guilty of a crime, but how much, if any, damages are due to the mistakes made in the organization they represent.

Cult members can simply explain away why they don’t have to report crimes committed by their members to the police. But it is not a policy they can hold without becoming civilly liable, so the current official policy is that the victim is free to report and that elders are personally responsible of making a report to hold to the law. The lawyers see that as similar to an HR policy that someone made up a long time ago and crossed them in the law. It’s not the leaders and organization that did the crime, but they made a mistake that allowed it to happen.

4

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago

by mickbobcat in

that rutherford or russell were into phrenology.

anyone have any info on this and is there anything in the tower or other publications going back about it?

thanks.

Anony Mous

@Earnest: The first two articles seem to suggest that phrenology is true, just that the scientific community came to the wrong conclusion, namely that it was "god" and religiosity you can read from the skull.

I don't think they have a position on for example multi-world hypothesis or quantum physics, but I'm sure you will eventually find something that says it is a fact and attributes it to Jehoober being superior. Just like they switched from being young-earth to old-earth creationists, they take whatever is convenient for them and twist it.

38

New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

by Sea Breeze in

5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

21:12, 17;] jn.

Anony Mous

The Western Bible canon alone has 2-3 narratives about the deity of Jesus. There were multiple branches of Christianity even early on (what Paul alluded to when he said there were followers of Barnabas, Peter and himself) that each had a different set of beliefs.

If we include all early Christian writings that were at one point claimed to be inspired, then you can create at least a dozen different outcomes, based on traditional Greek or Roman epics or even African origins or more Aristotelian ideas.

With the Bible, you can prove all different ideas by choosing the collection and order of scripture you use, hence the JWs are right (as they base their narrative similar to the Unitarian Protestant movement) whereas you can choose Catholic or Eastern Orthodox or Ethiopian Orthodox and get a different set of results.